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  1. Dear anniegyg, Hello- We do not ban people. Why should we? The need for advice on CHC is more important than ever when so much incorrect information is on line. Due to client or patient confidentiality we are not allowed to promote interests we are involved in so we do not mention the forum. We receive plenty of PM's and unlike Stephen this forum is not intended to be a platform to either rant rubbish or sell services. If you are having problems with either getting a CHC checklist, or have a DST that's plain wrong, we are here to help.
  2. Hello I am the new "admin" I am sorting out the mess Stephen Squires spouted as he was wrong both on the law and on the process. I decided to keep the forum up so I can resolve those who relied on Mr Squires nonsense and ended up by paying huge care home fee bills. Stephen Squires still does not understand the obligation of the CCG in assessing eligibility for continuing health care (CHC), and the role of the Local Authority under the Care Act s9 (assessing need) are completely sperate. MR STEPHEN SQUIRES IS BANNED AND ANYONE WHO PAID HIM MONEY IS FREE TO PM ME. To answer the following questions OBSERVATION Even with the help of the leading solicitor in the field of chc I lost my case. REPLY . As one of the 100/150 solicitors who work in this area, I am surprised you lost. I do accept the CCG's are ignoring the National Framework, but a lawyer should not allow a DST to proceed unless they can satisfy themselves of NICU. If you get a perverse outcome, you get evidence of non-compliance with the procedure or lack of medical evidence and turn up at the Appeal to justify the fee. OBSERVATION During this process, which lasted several years, I became aware that the numbers of people claiming CHC diminished significantly, not least due to the NHS constantly moving goal posts. REPLY, the numbers of people applying are increasing ( I get 30 calls per day) but yes, the NHS , via the CCG is changing the rules, but every hospital is obliged to undertake a CHC Checklist. We have a list of the CCG's who are flouting the National framework. OBSERVATION Following the re-vamp of this Forum I do not see lots of people seeking help. REPLY Agreed, and I have no idea why! I am happy to expand on any questions if the reply will be of general interest. ADMIN OBSERVATION One of the things that bugged me in the old Forum was that we were constantly being told that there were many email and telephone contacts with the Admin and that he was regularly winning cases for people – all ‘behind closed doors’. REPLY . I think we all know the answer.
  3. Hello, Socrates, you are correct, when all the posts migrated they were assigned the same date. I hope you will pop back to the forum now and then and support others. Life for anyone seeking funding for social care by way of CHC (Continuing Healthcare) or FNC Funded Nursing Care, will soon hear about a young man called Luke Davey who has a series of challenging medical issues. The case was not about CHC, but about the withdrawal of another benefit, Independent Living Fund ("ILF") which resulted in the Local authority stepping in to assess need. Where CHC is not obtained or withdrawn, this case is relevant, and the outcome not helpful to anyone than the local authority, or anyone who can afford a solicitor who can distinguish your case from the facts in Luke's. This case went to the High Court and is the first serious challenge to The Care Act's duty to consider all the statutory "wellbeing" features (s1.(1)) The case is very long, and complicated, however, and these are the chilling words "there is no duty to achieve the outcomes which the adult wishes to achieve; rather it is a duty to assess whether the provision of care and support could contribute to those outcomes" This is not a case of shoddy social work, far from it, rather this is an indication of what a slashed social care budgets mean to Mr Davey If anyone is faced with the Local Authority social services department reducing or removing Packages of Care, appropriate legal advice needs to be taken. However, if you want your letter or email to be ignored, please, please don't quote "Coughlan" or "NHS Constitution" and expect everything you ask for to be agreed. All some social workers will do is know you is you have Googled up some law, not understood it, and then walk all over your rights. There is a reason Dr's go to medical school for 7 years, social workers take 6 years to qualify, and lawyers take 6/7 years to start a lifetime of learning. Use us to fight for your rights and use the forum for supporting each other. Admin
  4. Dear Anne, I am sorry you are having problems logging on. I have asked my IT person to look at overnight. Is there a question you want an answer to? I am sorry if this post doesn't cover your question, but it answers all the PM's I have had this evening. Anything Steve Squires may have written has to be ignored, and any mention of Coughlan "entitlement" will get an applicant on a CHC/DST/IRP/NHS England nowhere. I think I'm going to scream if the next person who sends me an email saying that "mum has x, so she must be entitled to continuing healthcare".CHC If only that was true. In reality, we need evidence to secure two severe out of all the domains to win, and even winning has a sting in the tail. (more later on that topic) As lawyers, Dr's and social workers we took over the forum as many people were having their lives destroyed by Steve's one-man mission to prove that his view was correct and all the Dr's hcp's and lawyers were wrong. This forum is for the so-called "self-funder"- a morally corrupt concept, but one where experts who understand the Care Act and Mental Capacity Act can provide help that can change people's lives and get some "self-funders" to become the responsibility of the Local Authority. I have spent the day on the wrong end of DST's where CHC's are ignoring the National Framework We have to fight back. Goodnight Admin
  5. Welcome back to Free Nursing Care - home of the so called “self-funder”. If you have a question, we will answer. New material will be added that's going to support the self-funded in your fight with the "system". We are furious, we cannot change the law by ourselves, but we can make sure you get every penny the State grudgingly gives you. My name is Tony, I am a practicing solicitor, Rachael an Adult Services Social Worker, and Dr Chops has experience on working with Stroke and Care of the Elderly patients. All three of us are real people who hold down very busy professional careers. We are all very angry that we cannot deliver the care our training has taught us, or the protections of law are beyond pocket of the average individual so we offer our time free and have the occasional rant. We try to give something back, and we do so by helping out in this forum. We are unpaid, and our job rotas mean we cannot answer every question immediately. We all work full time, as we are all subject to our respective professional bodies rules, so we cannot reveal our identities as our replies are not intended to create a doctor patient relationship, a Service User lawyer / Client relationship. No answer is intended, or does, create a solicitor client relationship, or a patient , health care practitioner relationship. If in doubt, seek out appropriate advice. We are able to recommend people who we have had positive experiences with, or others report being happy with the service they have received. Our answers should demonstrate our knowledge of such subjects as dementia law and medical treatment of stroke and dementia care, social care funding( continuing heathcare- "CHC") mental capacity , Powers of Attorney, Court of Protection, safeguarding, eligibility for Care Home placement and care Plans/ packages of care. Unlike the previous Admin whose ignorance of The Care Act 2014 and the Mental Capacity Act 2005 caused him to not give you the support and advise you need. We are worried many of you have relied upon incorrect postings by the previous Admin, who in some cases he had taken fees from and told you to ignore the Local Authority and keep on shouting Coughlan. This approach to helping your family member is ill conceived and is wrong. Please don’t mention Coughlan-in 2017 Pam Coughlan would not have qualified for CHC. We will respond to each of you, even if your loved on has passed on. There are some technical details about the forum refresh below, however, as a group of Admins who are focussed on the plight of the self funder. Here are details of how to use the new forum. It is to inform you that the FNC (Free Nursing Care) forum has been migrated from the old "Forumotion" (freeware) platform to new "IPS (Invision Power Board)" forum software with following: All the forum content (including member's usernames, emails, avatars, content count and posts) have been transferred over to the new forum. The new forum is a self-hosted type, which means that unlike previous one, the entire data will now have a regular full backup. The new forum is the leading industry-standard software with top-notch security, stability, flexibility and design. The new forum has lot of unique and latest features, that were NOT available with the previous one. The new forum is 100% fully Responsive over PC, Tablet and Mobile phones. and much more... Please be advised that the new forum software possess a unique password encryption algorithm, due to which we could NOT import/process the passwords associated with each username/email. Therefore, we request you to proceed to the Forgot your Password page once, to reset your password associated with your email address. For more details as how to reset your password, please watch this video tutorial: We are pleased to announce the official launch and revamp of FNC Forum today. We hope you'll like the look and feel of the new forum and expect your active participation at FNC forum! Very warm regards, FNC Forum Administration. ================================== No answer is intended, or does, create a solicitor client relationship, or a patient , health care practitioner relationship. If in doubt, seek out appropriate advice.
  6. Lasting Powers of Attorney- differences between Health and Welfare and Property and Financial Affairs LPAs These are some of the “headline: differences” between health and welfare and property and financial affairs lasting powers of attorney (LPAs) and why a Donor should grant both- as only granting one limits the donees ability when the Donor looses Mental Capacity. Type of POA Health and welfare Property and financial affairs (Essential if donor is deemed by the Local Authority to be a so called “self funder” (Self-funder) Who can make an LPA? • Any person aged 18 • Person must have mental capacity • Any person aged 18 • Person must have mental capacity Who can be an attorney? • Any person aged 18 or over Person must not be a bankrupt • Any person aged 18 or over • Person must not be a bankrupt What decisions/actions can be taken by an attorney on behalf of the donor? Anything that relates to the donor’s personal welfare, for example: • Medical matters • Consent to medical treatment and arrangements that need to be made • Where the donor should live • Who the donor may have contact with • The donor’s day to day care provision. • Dealing with social services-i.e Continuing Health Care (“CHC”) and Care Plans, and receiving Direct Payments (“DP’s) from the Local Authority • Accessing medical or legal paperwork • Dealing with the donor’s day to day paperwork • Complaints about care or treatment Anything that relates to the donor’s property and financial affairs, for example: • Buying or selling property • Operating bank accounts • Giving access to the donor’s financial information • Claiming and using all benefits, pensions, allowances etc • Receiving any income • Dealing with tax affairs • Paying the donor’s mortgage, rent and household expenses. • Insuring, maintaining and repairing the donor’s property • Investing the donor’s savings • Making gifts in very limited circumstances • Paying for private medical care, residential care or nursing home fees • Using the donor’s money to buy a vehicle or any equipment or other help needed • Repaying interest and capital on any loan taken out by the donor When can the LPA be used? • Only after the LPA has been registered with the Public Guardian AND • When the donor lacks capacity • Only after the LPA has been registered with the Office of Public Guardian (“OPG”) AND • Before or after donor lacks capacity (unless donor specifies that the attorney cannot act until after the donor has lost mental capacity)
  7. Hello, Steve's version of how care fees are paid for is paid for is wrong. No if's or buts. If you want to read Coughlan, you can do so here I am sorry its taken so long Admin
  8. NurseAssessor is completly correct. The advice is correct, however unpalatable. Those who ignore Local Authorities who seek to determine funding for care fees do so at the risk of being sued. Continuing Health Care (CHC) and Funded Nursing Care (FNC) are decided by CCG MDT Panels, not by ignoring Local Authorities and sending copies of a 1999 law case (Coughlan) The National Framework that NurseAssessor works to is the correct approach. AS A SOLICITOR WHO WORKS IN CONTINUING HEALTHCARE PLEASE DO PM ME IF YOU ARE UNSURE- DO NOT "FIRE OFF" RANTS.
  9. Hi, I am sorry to read of the strain you are under. As you say the facts are not only unfair, but I suspect unlawful. I am intrigued about the "internal documents" as I wonder if the local CCG has updated their local guidance as the CHC National Framework,November 2012 at page 83 gives "guidance on limits can be put on individual choice. The Framework ( paragraph 167 ) allows "a coach and horses" though the spirit of Coughlan as it places the CCG in the position to consider value for money when assessing appropriateness of needs. What I suspect is happening is Continuing Health Care Packages of Care are being moved from individual CHC plans onto a standards based NHS Standards Contract Here is an example of an "Internal Document" I wonder if in your case this is botched administration causing you anxiety or a genuine attempt to remove CHC. If the latter, it has to be fought. Could you PM (if you wish) the name of the lawyers. There are very few of us who live and breath The Care Act 2014 with a sub specialty interest in protecting the Coughlan test of a Primary Health Care Need. I would be interested in communicating on a non client specific level with any other practitioner as I am sensing the Dept of Health are changing the ground rules without publishing this fact. The facts you present are not uncommon to me, and I want to see if other practitioners are seeing the same.
  10. Hello, My name is David, and I am Admin on the site. I have never seen "internal guidelines". I'm impressed your if lawyers can get a copy. Do you know the scoring, if not I can send you a sheet of each of the domains and how they should be scored? If CCH is withdrawn, you will be told of the Appeal options, however, if your mum is as you describe, I cannot see how CHC can be lawfully withdrawn. If you want to pm me anything, maybe I can offer a deeper insight. As far as I am concerned, based on the facts you have stated, either CCH was granted in error initially, or there is an "abuse of process", however the remedies are out of the reach of most of us. Sorry to be negative-lets see the so called"Internal guidelines and how they vary from the decided Court Cases David
  11. Before I discuss how to revoke Power of Attorney's here is a quick brief about them. We most commonly see revocations where a donor has an Enduring Power of Attorney and now wants the far better Health and Welfare and / or Financial Affairs Power of Attorney. A Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) gives another individual the legal authority to look after specific aspects of your financial affairs or health and welfare should you lose the capacity to do so. It's not just for the elderly; younger people may become unable to tend to their own affairs too, either through an unexpected accident or illness. There are two types of LPA: one that covers decisions about money matters, known as a Property and Financial Affairs LPA, and one that can cover decisions about health, known as a Personal Welfare LPA. A key difference is that a property and financial affairs LPA can be used while someone still has capacity, whereas a personal welfare LPA can only be used once they have lost it. If you or a loved one does not have a Financial LPA in place and become mentally incapacitated at a later stage, your relatives face long delays in gaining access to your assets (usually at large expenses too), as they apply to the Court of Protection for access to your assets and finances. The benefits of having a health and welfare LPA are subtler, yet equally as significant. It will ensure that if you ever lose capacity, the person making the important decisions about your health is somebody that has been chosen by you, and hence, is best placed to act in your best interests, or, in accordance to what you would have wanted for yourself. Without a health and welfare LPA in place, Social Services might take these decisions, often without consulting members of your family. Of course, some of these decisions are fairly straight forward, however, in certain situations, Social Services will make difficult decisions, even if family members are opposed to that course of action. We see this most commonly in decisions that relate to life support machines and resuscitation. REVOCATION - 1. The donor can always revoke a POA themselves whilst they have capacity. This can only be done by Deed. This can be obtained by private messaging me. 2. If the Power has been registered or the Donor no longer has mental capacity this is a matter for the Office of Public Guardian (OPG). There is a frightening expression 'disclaiming the power' which in reality means just signing a document that is called a 'Deed of Disclaimer'. I could expand further about jointly and severally appointed Attorneys but rather than make this post incredibly long, please feel free to PM.
  12. Arranging a Legal Power of Attorney is relatively straightforward and inexpensive and is done via the Office of the Public Guardian. On the other hand, applying to become a Deputy through the Court of Protection can cost over £1000 and requires annual renewal fees. The process is arduous and you might even have to have a hearing if the court deems it necessary. Caring for a loved one is challenging, yet very necessary. By appointing an LPA when you are young, or suggesting it to an older relative, you can avoid these encounters with the Court of Protection and devote more time to your loved one, or your other commitments.
  13. Dear anniegyg 1. There is a difference in law between health care and social care. Social care is governed by the National Assistance Act (1948) and health care is governed by the NHS Act (2006). The distinction between nursing care which can and can not be provided by the NHS and / Local Authority depends on the facts of a particular case. The law relating to this area is complex. The law continues to evolve and only as recently as 2015 did the Court's adjudicate on this matter. 2. In the Booker case, it was deemed unlawful that the Primary Care Trust (PCT) withdrew continuing healthcare. If you have a health care need whether you are a prince or a pauper, your income is disregarded (non-means tested). Miss Booker, who was successful in recovering damages, was entitled to use the damages as she pleased. Rest assured, a detailed explanation when (free) health care and (means tested) social care applies will be posted in due course. If however, you have a matter that is urgent please PM me.
  14. Adult social care in the UK is overstretched and underfunded. The system, designed in 1948, is no longer fit for purpose. Currently, large discrepancies exist between what people are entitled to and what they receive, and between what is available and what is known. This situation needs to be resolved! Life expectancy increases and advances in medical treatment of common conditions have increased the demand for social care to unprecedented levels. Meanwhile, social care budgets continue to decrease in real terms and the number of people in receipt of social care is falling, as local Social Services departments move to protect their increasingly scarce budgets. A Local Authority will often neglect those that need social care, leaving individuals and their families unsatisfied, helpless and often at risk from injury and further health deteriorations. It is unlikely that the government will move to improve the state of social care, as evidenced by its recent decision to delay discussions about the implementation of a Social Care Cap, (limiting how much an individual will contribute to their own care), until 2020. The postponement of this cap is just one example of how self-funders have been made to suffer. A person is a self-funder if he or she has assets above £23,250 and is therefore obligated to pay for means-tested social care. Self-funders remain largely unaware of what their entitlements are and consequently, many receive care that is substandard. Accordingly, a forum that works to maximise your interests, navigate you through the complexities of the social care maze and inform you about what your entitlements are would be extremely valuable. For complete protection against health deteriorations in old age, it is imperative that one considers the legal and financial aspects of age related issues too. If you have any social care and / or NHS Continuing Healthcare issues or know of someone that does please post on this forum. Finally, if there is anything you would like to discuss discreetly please feel free to PM me.
  15. Social care covers a wide range of services, both private and public, and can include anything from help getting out of bed and washing, through to care homes and drop-in centres. Social care is provided by the Local Authority and is means-tested to a £23,250 cap. This means that it is only free for those with assets that amount to less than £23,250. Everyone else, who has assets above £23,250 must fund their care themselves until a time where the value of their assets drops below the £23,250 means-tested cap. Individuals who pay for their own social care are referred to as ‘self-funders’.